ENTP Women in Relationships: What I Did Not Say at Dinner

Contents
  1. Quick, and the Other Word
  2. What She Does at the College
  3. Rockhill's Meeting
  4. Three Years to Find Out
  5. The Ockermans
  6. Six Credits
  7. What Was in the Box
  8. Okay
ENTP women in relationships — the Debater

She does not pull at a thing she has stopped caring about. It took me thirty years and forty ruined acres to work out which way round that runs.


In March of 2019 I sat at my own table and did not say that I thought we ought to go back into cabbage.

It was a Sunday. Galen was there with his wife and Vonda had done a roast, and the talk got onto the Pixley place going up for sale.

“Whoever gets it’ll break it up,” Galen said. “It’ll go into corn.”

“It’s got the cooler,” his wife said.

“Cooler’s shot.”

“Cooler needs a compressor,” I said.

And that is the closest I came. I had the whole thing worked out: sixty acres, the cooler, a market we had been out of for a decade, and I had been turning it over since January.

Vonda said, “Somebody’s buying that ground and it won’t be anybody from around here.”

And I said, “Probably not.”

That is what I said. I have gone over that Sunday more than any other day in this account, because there was not one thing wrong with it. Nobody was ugly. The roast was good. My son talked about his truck. And I sat there with sixty acres of cabbage in my head and put a lid on it and passed the potatoes, and I had been doing that particular thing for so long by then that it did not register as a decision. It was more like closing a gate on the way through.

The reason, if you had stopped me in the driveway that night and asked, was ready to hand and I had been hauling it around since about 1994.

Nothing I say survives her.

I do not mean she is mean. Vonda has never in her life said a cruel thing to me on purpose, and I have seen her be decent to people who had nothing coming. I mean that if I put a sentence on the table, she picks it up and turns it over and finds the seam in it, and then she is off, and by the time she gets done there are five other ways to do it and two reasons mine will not work and a question about something I had not thought about at all, and she is happy, and I am standing there holding a thing that was whole ninety seconds ago.

So I got out of the habit of putting sentences on the table. That is the entire content of my marriage’s difficulty and it took me until I was sixty-one to see the shape of it.

Vonda Hoag has worked at the college over at Dansville since 1998 and she is the person other people in that building bring a form to when the form does not make sense. She reads everything. She reads the back of the seed bag. She reads the church newsletter with a pen. She has started and not finished, by my count, a degree in history, a degree in accounting, most of one in something they called communication, and a certificate in medical coding that she got down to two classes on and let go. There is not a funnier person in whatever room she walks into. Her mother could not stand her.

Quick, and the Other Word

The word this county uses on my wife is quick.

It comes out warm. Somebody will say Vonda Hoag is quick, and there is a little pause behind it, and sitting in that pause is a second sentence that nobody has to say out loud. I have heard quick said about her at a funeral lunch, at the fire hall, in the parts room at the implement dealer, and once by a woman at church who meant it as a warning to a new pastor.

There is another word that gets used when the company is not mixed, and I will not set that one down here, and every man reading this knows which one it is and could have supplied it before I got to the end of the sentence.

Rockhill, who I am going to get to, does the identical thing at a table. He takes your position apart in front of people and he enjoys it. What Rockhill has is a reputation for being sharp, and that reputation has been worth money to him for twenty years. The man version of my wife is a different animal in this county and it is not my story.

I ought to put down what it is like when it is pointed at somebody else.

In about 2003 a man came out to sell me a grain bin I did not need, with a folder and a laminated sheet. Vonda came out with coffee and stayed. He got maybe six minutes in. She asked what the interest was actually costing across the term, and he told her.

“Say that back to me in bushels.”

He could not do it in his head. She did it in hers, out loud, slowly, being helpful about it, and then said, “So that’s a wagon a week, all season, for the privilege,” and let it sit there.

Then she asked what he had sold before bins.

“Insurance.”

“That makes a lot of sense,” she said, and asked him something about insurance, and by the time he left he had been in my kitchen two hours, had not sold me one thing, and shook her hand twice on the way out.

I have watched her do some version of that thirty times in thirty years and every single time a part of me was glad it was not pointed at me.

Here is my part in it, which is the part I actually have standing to talk about.

We had been married about two years and we were at my mother’s for Sunday dinner, and my mother asked Vonda something about the school levy, and Vonda answered for a good while and got interesting about halfway through, and I said, “Don’t get her started.”

Vonda laughed. That is the part of it I cannot get around. She laughed, and reached over and got the butter.

I said that sentence for twenty-five more years. At tables, at the fire hall, in my own kitchen to a fieldman, in front of my children, in front of her. Don’t get her started. It is affectionate on its face and I would have told you that is how I meant it, and by about 2005 it was not my sentence anymore, it belonged to everybody, and people who had never been in a room with her when she got going would say it to her face at the post office.

What She Does at the College

Her job is in the office that handles the paperwork when a student transfers in from somewhere else, which means her whole day is other people’s documents and whether they say what somebody thinks they say.

Staff there get six credits a semester free. Vonda started using it in 2001 and she used it every semester, fall and spring, for a dozen years, and she was fifty-two years old sitting in a room with nineteen-year-olds twice a week and she loved it and told me nothing about it that I asked about and everything about it that I did not.

The family joke, which I built and maintained, was that she could not finish anything. Galen used to do a bit at Christmas where he read out her transcript. Everybody laughed. Vonda laughed.

I want to put down one thing from those years because it was in front of me the whole time.

She never once took a class in anything she was already good at. She was good with money and she took accounting and quit it. She was good with people and she took the communication one and quit it. What she stayed with longest was a run of geology courses in about 2006 that bore on nothing at all, and she came home from those and talked at me for an hour about the moraine our farm sits on and where the gravel came from and why the beans do what they do on the north end. I did not follow much of it. She was lit up like a barn fire.

I have a hired man named Jess Tuttle who has been with me since he was nineteen. He said to me once, in the truck, that Vonda ought to have been a lawyer.

“She’d have been good at it.”

“She’d have been terrible at it,” I said. “She’d argue the other side halfway through.”

Jess thought about that and said, “Yeah, but she’d know if she was wrong.”

I did not have anything to say to that so I turned the radio on.

Rockhill’s Meeting

We grew snap beans and sweet corn on contract for the plant at Byron, and every January there is a meeting where the grower relations man goes through the contract and you sign it, and for nineteen years that man was Rockhill.

In January of 2011 they came at us with a new program. The gist was that the plant would specify the chemistry, all of it, herbicide included, in exchange for a better price and a guaranteed acre commitment. Several of us were going to sign. I was going to sign. It was a good price in a year when there was not one.

Vonda came with me. She had come to that meeting exactly twice in her life and this was the second time, and she came because I had brought the contract home in December and left it on the counter and she had read it, of course she had read it, and she had two things.

The meeting was in the room off the scale house at the plant with the long table and the coffee that has been in that pot since the Nixon administration. Rockhill ran those meetings like a man moving cattle. He was pleasant the whole way through and he never once let a man get clear to the end of a thought, and if you have sat in that kind of room you know that the trick is not interruption. The trick is agreeing with the first part fast.

There were four men at that table and Rockhill and my wife. Deland Vosburgh, who has ground on the Bethany road. Two brothers off the east side. Me.

She got the first one out. It was about the delivery window and the language on who eats it if the plant can’t take the load on the day they call for it, and she was right, and Rockhill gave her about ninety seconds and then said the standard language was the standard language and it had not been an issue in a dozen years.

And she said, “The other thing is the herbicide program, because the label on that residual has a rotation restriction on it and our ground runs high pH, and on high pH ground that stuff hangs on a lot longer than the label’s baseline, and I want to know who is holding the bag when we can’t put what we want on that field in 2013.”

That is what she was going to say. I have reconstructed it since from what she wrote down.

What she actually got out was, “The other thing is the herbicide program, because the label on that residual has a rotation restriction and our ground runs high pH, so if we”

And I said, “Vonda. Let’s not get into it.”

Four men at a table and my wife, and I said let’s not get into it in the tone a man takes with a dog that is barking at a friend.

She stopped. She did not argue with me about it. She sat there with her hands on her folder for the rest of the meeting and afterward she got in the truck and asked did I want to stop and get a sandwich, and we stopped and got a sandwich.

I signed it. All four of us signed it.

Three Years to Find Out

The beans were fine. The corn was fine. The price held and 2011 was the best year we had in that decade and I remember telling Jess that the new program was the smartest thing the plant had done in twenty years.

In the spring of 2013 we put the forty on the Ockerman ground into cabbage.

Cabbage is a broadleaf and so is about everything worth putting on that piece, and what came up was a stand that got to about six inches and sat there and went a color I had never seen on a cabbage plant, sort of yellow up the veins, and stopped. Not all of it. In stripes, where the sprayer had overlapped in 2011.

I called the plant. I called the chemical rep. I called the extension office, and a man named Peckham came out and walked it with me and stood there a while and then asked me what had been on it two years before, and I told him, and he did not say anything unkind. He said the label carries a rotation restriction, and he said it is longer on ground like ours because the stuff does not break down the same way when the pH runs up, and he said on this particular piece he would guess we were looking at a third season and maybe a fourth.

He was two years off retirement and had a thing about the county soil survey from 1969, which he kept rolled up behind the seat of his truck and would get out on any excuse. He got it out on the hood that day, after, and put his finger on our forty and told me the man who mapped it had walked the whole county on foot over three summers and had gotten the boundary between two units on our north end wrong by about a hundred feet, and that he, Peckham, had proved it in 1994 and had written to somebody about it and never heard back. He is retired now. I have his letter in a drawer because he gave me a copy. It bears on nothing whatever in here, and I think about that man oftener than I think about most of my relatives.

I drove up to the end of that lane and sat there for a length of time I could not give you.

Vonda was at work. I did not call her. I want that noted, because I have turned it over for a dozen years now: my wife was twenty-five minutes away with a phone on her desk and I did not call her, and the reason I did not call her is that I already knew what she was going to say and I had spent nineteen years arranging my life so that I would not have to hear her say things.

I told her that night. She said, “Okay.” Then she asked what the extension man’s name was and wrote it down, and then she went and did the dishes.

She has never said one syllable to me about that meeting. Not that night, not once in thirteen years.

The Ockermans

The forty was rented ground. Elwyn and Verda Ockerman had farmed it their whole lives and it was the home place, and when Elwyn’s back went they kept the house and rented me the field, and I had it eleven years and paid on the first and never once was late.

They had a plan for that ground. Their grandson was coming back from the service and was going to put it into a vegetable operation with a stand out on the county road, which is the kind of plan two old people make out loud at a kitchen table more than once, and I had heard it more than once.

I had to go tell Elwyn Ockerman that he could not put a broadleaf on his own home place for three years and maybe longer.

He took it better than I would have. We were standing in his driveway and he had a hose in his hand and he did not put it down.

“Three years.”

“Maybe a fourth. Depends what it does over winter.”

“And there’s nothing you put on it to take it out.”

“No.”

He asked me twice more whether I was sure, in different words both times, which is what a man will do when he is hoping he misheard. Then he turned the hose off at the nozzle.

“Well,” he said. “It’ll come back.”

The grandson went to work at the plant in Byron instead. They sold the forty in 2016 to a man out of the east side of the county who put it all in corn and beans and it is in corn and beans today. Verda died the year after. Elwyn is at the home in Wheatland and I go and see him and we do not talk about the field.

I will not put this off on Rockhill or on the plant. The chemistry did what the chemistry does and the label said so and the label was on a sheet of paper in my own barn. It was in the contract and my wife had read the contract, which is more than the rest of us who signed it can say.

Six Credits

In the fall of 2024 our accountant wanted a number off Vonda’s tuition benefit for something, and Vonda was at her sister’s, so I called the college and a woman in that office looked it up for me and read me the last year she had used it.

Two thousand thirteen.

I said that could not be right and she looked again and said no, spring of 2013, six credits, and nothing since.

Eleven years. She had gone to work in that building every day for eleven years, past the room where they hand you the form, and had not put in for it, and I had never once noticed, because the joke was already written and I had been telling the joke.

I asked her that night. I had a good deal of steam up and none of it aimed anywhere useful.

“They quit offering it?”

“No.”

“Then what.”

She was at the sink. She said, “I stopped in thirteen.”

“Why?”

She turned from the sink and was in no hurry about it. Then she said, “You never asked me about any of them, Lyle. Not one of them. Twelve years. Not once.”

I said that was not fair and that I had asked her plenty.

“You asked what I was taking,” she said. “Not one time in twelve years did you ask what was in any of it.”

I said I had been busy for twelve years.

“I know it,” she said. “I’m not saying you were wrong to be.”

That was worse than if she had thrown something. She dried her hands and went and sat down in the front room with the light off, which she does, and I stood in my kitchen working out that I knew nothing at all about twelve years of my wife’s evenings except that they had been funny at Christmas.

What Was in the Box

There is a box in the stairwell at our place with her coursework in it, twelve years of it, spiral notebooks and printouts and blue books, and after that night I brought it up to the kitchen and went through it, which took me three evenings.

I am not a reader. I want that understood, because it bears on how I got here. The way I look at a field is the way I look at anything with words on it: you walk a pattern and stop in five places and count whatever is standing there and make your call, and that method has been right for me for forty years on beans and it is how I read the contract in December of 2010, and it is exactly how a man walks straight past a rotation restriction. Five stops. It was not in any of my five.

Those three evenings were the first time in my life I read a thing all the way through.

Most of the box is nothing. Chapters on the Erie Canal. A group project about a hospital. Then in a notebook from a psychology course in the spring of 2009 there is one of those inventories, filled in, and in her writing at the top of the page, ENTP, and under it, in the margin, ha.

She had argued with the textbook down the whole margin. That is what I want to describe, because it is more her than anything I could say about her.

Where the book said the retest was good, she had written that the only real retest anybody has is one four-week window on a bit over four hundred people, and roughly two in three of those people came back with the identical letters, while more than one in four had a letter move on them inside the month, and that the scales underneath are a good deal steadier than the letters, a letter being only a scale cut down the middle, so anybody sitting near that cut is going to flip. Then, underneath, in a different pen, from a different year by the look of it: so it is a word, not a serial number, and I am going to use the word.

I sat in my kitchen and got taught the limits of the thing by my own wife, in pencil, fifteen years after she wrote it down, because I would not let her tell me anything out loud.

Four letters, and a habit of mind behind each, stacked so the one on top runs whether you asked for it or not while the last has to be dragged out by hand, and where those habits sit for this type, and what the bottom one does inside a marriage, is set out in the article on the type.

The habit on top is the one I have been married to since 1991. It is a machine for producing other possibilities. Put anything in front of it, a plan, a sentence, a price, and it does not evaluate the thing, it opens the thing, and out come the three other versions and the two objections and the question from an angle nobody was standing at. It does not turn off and it is not aimed. She does it to the church newsletter.

The second habit is the part I had no idea about. It is a private test bench. Everything the first habit throws up gets run against it for whether it actually holds together, and that testing is the reason she cannot let a seam alone. She is not disagreeing with you. She is finding out.

And the classes.

Twelve years of six credits and she never took up one subject she was already good at, and I had that filed under a woman who cannot pick a lane. What it actually is: the top habit does not go where a person is competent. It goes where something is still open. Accounting shut on her inside six weeks, because she could see the whole shape of it from the doorway and there was nothing left in there to get at. Geology stayed open two years, because the ground under our own farm turned out to be a story with holes in it. There is no degree at the end of those twelve years because there was never a degree at the end of it. There was a row of open doors and a woman who is not built to walk past one, and I made a Christmas bit out of that, and so did our son.

There are not many of her. In 1998 somebody put this to a national sample, three thousand people and change, and the type came back at roughly one woman in forty and one man in twenty-five. Call it sixteen or seventeen of them inside this county line. I would bet the place that every one of them has been called quick.

And here is what came up off the floor of my kitchen and hit me.

She does not do it to everything. She does it to the things she is still in.

She took apart the contract in December of 2010 because it was our life and she was in it. She took apart the geology because she had gotten into it. She has never once in all these years taken apart her mother’s story about her father’s death, which is wrong in at least three places and which she has heard a hundred times, and I used to think that was respect.

And in 2019, when I said we ought to think about the Pixley place, which I did not say, and in 2013, when the cabbage came up yellow and she said okay and then washed the dishes.

Okay. That is what she gives a thing she has quit.

Vonda came through at ten and saw what I had spread over the table.

“That’s a lot of nothing,” she said.

“Some of it,” I said.

She stood there a second with her hand on the doorframe, and then she went up.

Okay

I did not handle the winter of 2025 well.

I went around for about five months being sorry at Vonda, which I have since learned is its own kind of insult. I brought things up at supper on purpose, half-formed, to give her something to take apart, and she would give me a look and say a little and stop, and I would push, and she would say a little bit more, and it was like handing somebody a fork and asking them to be hungry.

In February I said something bad. I said she had let it happen, that she could have gone around me, that she could have called the plant herself, that a woman who will argue with a church bulletin could have argued with her own husband one more time about a field. She let me finish.

Then she said, “You told me not to get into it in front of four men. I did what you asked.” And she went upstairs.

If somebody handed me one thing back out of thirty years it would be that sentence, and it is hers, and I cannot have it back.

Now I have to say the hard part, because a thing like this can be read the wrong way by somebody who needs it to say something else. Understanding why my wife takes a sentence apart does not put back the thirty years I spent not saying sentences, and it does not turn the Ockerman forty green. And there is a real distinction I want to draw for anybody standing where I was. Watch what gets taken apart. If you can write down what she said afterward and it is about the thing, the plan, the price, the field, then that is argument, and argument can be worked with, and learning how is worth whatever it takes. If you write it down and it is about you, and the reading of you changes depending on what she needs to win, then that is a different animal wearing the same coat, and a set of initials has not one useful thing to say about it, and I would not let a soul on earth hand them to you.

I told Galen about the box in June. He was quiet a while and then he said he had done the transcript bit at Christmas six or seven years running and that his wife had told him twice to quit it and he had not. He has not done it since. I do not know what that is worth to anybody and I put it in because it is one of the few things that has changed.

There are two I have not gotten to the bottom of.

I still do not know whether she stopped taking classes because of me or because of her mother, who died in the fall of 2012, and I have asked twice, and both times she has answered a slightly different question than the one I asked, which is a thing she can do without appearing to.

And there is the cabbage, which I was right about. The Pixley ground would have been a good buy. It went for a price that turned out to be low and it is in cabbage right now under somebody else’s name. My best idea in fifteen years and I ate it at my own table because of a habit I had built. I have not worked out how much of that to lay on her and I suspect the honest answer is none of it, and I am not there.

She still will not touch the story about her father. Her mother has been dead thirteen years and Vonda tells it now herself, at Christmas, in her mother’s words, with the three wrong parts in it, and if you asked me why, I have no answer, and neither has one page of anything I have read.

In April I said at supper that I thought we ought to look at putting the north end into something we could sell off a stand, and that I had run numbers, and that I thought it was worth about ninety minutes of somebody telling me why it was stupid.

Galen looked at his plate. Vonda put her fork down.

She started in on the labor, and then the road frontage, and then whether the north end drains well enough for what I was talking about, which it does not, and I had known that and had been hoping she would not get there inside the first ten minutes. She got there inside the first ten.

I let her run. It took most of an hour and she was not done.

“That’s the first thing,” she said, and stopped, the way a person stops when they have been stopped before.

“What’s the second one.”

She sat back and looked at me a good while.

“You’re not going to like the second one,” she said.


The people in these essays are composites drawn from long observation. The theory is not.

This article is available at https://cinemawords.com/en/entp-women-in-relationships/

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